The Big Interview: Marco Pierre White

13-Feb-2012 - Last updated on 16-Feb-2012 at 15:53 GMT

Marco Pierre White tells Matt Moggridge about the role of aspirations and frozen peas in successful food-pub development.

"I hate food snobbery,” says Marco Pierre White as he prepares to host a press lunch in the Pullman Room of the Rainbow Inn, Cooksbridge, East Sussex.

“It’s all about the eating,” says Pierre White to an open-mouthed food journalist who finds it hard to swallow that her pea and ham soup appetiser was made with Birds Eye frozen peas, rather than fresh petits pois shelled by eunuchs in a field across the road.

“Madam, we are a pub and what I want to do is serve the best pea and ham soup. It’s as simple as that,” Pierre White tells her, a pint of his Governor ale in hand. “We’re not trying to be posh. We’re very straightforward and use Knorr and Birds Eye.”

Over lunch we learn that Le Gavroche, where Pierre White began his culinary training in 1977, used “sensational” tinned peaches and pears, that the French are masters at “tinning” and that Pierre White is a brand ambassador for Knorr, P&O Ferries and Bernard Matthews.

Modest beginnings

His humble working-class Leeds roots are at the heart of Pierre White’s ‘man-in-the-street’ attitude towards pub food.

“Pubs are a natural environment in which to enjoy dinner and a pint,” he tells me, adding that the big trend of the moment is the growing aspirational nature of the working man.

“They’re a lot more educated about what’s good and what’s bad. You can’t pull the wool over their eyes — and when they get a bill for £60 or £70, they know whether they’ve had value. They’re not blinded by the illusion.”

Pierre White believes his Wheeler’s of St James’s brand represents the future for pubs. The latest Wheeler’s of St James’s pub, the Pear Tree in Whitley, Wiltshire, has recently opened, to be followed by the Carnarvon Arms in Newbury, Berkshire.

By 10 February there will be six, rising to 10 by March and possibly 20 by the year-end, mainly in the south, with two further north, in Chester.

“We create environments where the eye is always amused, which are formal but not to the point of intimidation. They’re not too casual and the menu is for all occasions,” he says.

Such a perspective might go some way to explaining his dislike of the term ‘gastropub’.

“I always think of gastro-enteritis and something that is over-worked, trying too hard and doesn’t have the infrastructure to deliver the standards it’s aspiring to. It’s a label I don’t like,” he says, preferring “eating and drinking house”.

Pierre White has a lot on his plate as he continues to roll out his Wheeler’s of St James’s brand, predominantly in pubs in the south of England. The Rainbow Inn has been set up in conjunction with Tarquin Gorst’s Sterling Pub Company.

Gorst is also Pierre White’s business partner at the Hansom Cab in Kensington, central London. The basic set-up is that Pierre White and the Wheeler’s brand are the weave that connects the business together. That’s Gorst’s view. Pierre White says Wheeler’s of St James’s is the umbrella.

“It’s a case of who owns the umbrella,” he says, and that person, of course, is Pierre White.

Pub priorities

A typical potential site is well-located, under-performing, easily accessible and offers eight to 20 letting rooms. So what are Pierre White’s priorities?

“Marco is very dominant operationally. If he wasn’t there we’d get muddled. He’s brand-focused and makes it easy to integrate the Rainbow Inn with other Wheeler’s pubs. It doesn’t matter who owns what,” says Gorst, adding that Pierre White brings a killer eye to design and eats in all the restaurants.

While Wheeler’s provides focus through branding and offers consumers a brand with personality, each pub is individual and Pierre White denies he is developing a pub chain.

“If we had 10 in Bristol, people would say we’re a chain, but it would take us three hours to drive from the Rainbow Inn in East Sussex to the Pear Tree in Wiltshire.”

Universality and individuality

Quirky individuality is retained by the furniture and fittings. At the Rainbow Inn, that means old brasserie mirrors circa 1900, lamps from Smithfield market and a framed collection of Jak cartoons in the Cartoon Room.

“For me, detail is really important. How many places create a sense of occasion for £35 per head? Perfection is a lot of small things done well,” he points out, quoting Fernand Point’s Ma Gastronomie.

The cuisine is classical. In the main, food is locally sourced, but beef is purchased direct from Scotland for the entire estate.

“English beef is cheaper but inconsistent. Ours is aged for 28 days and we pay 30% more for it. We serve a 10oz steak, rather than 8oz, which doesn’t cook as well,” he explains.

While quails’ eggs — a Wheeler’s classic — are on the starters menu and venison with chocolate sauce is a three-Michelin-star main course adapted for a pub environment, Wheeler’s is a pub brand for all occasions and pockets.

Exhibiting a strong sense of class-consciousness, Pierre White thrives on universality and believes the working man should remain aspirational.

“My father would never have walked into a place like this — he’d have thought it too posh. Mum would have coped — she came from quite a good family.”

With Wheeler’s, his objective is to turn selected pubs into “restaurants that serve a pint”.

“We create a multi-dimensional menu — so if you want to treat your dear lady for her birthday, it ticks that box. If you want to bring the bank manager, it ticks that box. If you want to join a mate and have shepherd’s pie and a pint, it ticks that one too.”

Regular host

Pierre White hung up his apron on 23 September 1999. While some would argue he’s jumped from kitchen to boardroom, he is adamant that he is not a businessman.

“I just make things. I don’t use a designer; I work it all out for myself. I like making environments and watching people enjoy themselves. I’m in the business of selling a night out and creating spaces where people can create memories,” he says.

He used to cook three-star Michelin food for strangers; today he has regulars.

“I cook for the people of Britain,” he says. “I enjoy sharing my knowledge with my team and seeing young men and women progress. I love creating opportunity. It’s what people did for me when I was a young boy.”

Horatio Inns and Wheeler’s sites

Pierre White runs Horatio Inns, which operates four pubs in Norfolk, one in Wiltshire and one in Suffolk — all former Maypole Group pubs.

He works on a 50-50 basis with a number of other operators, such as Powder Train at the Chequers Hotel in Maresfield, East Sussex and the Kings Arms in Fernhurst, West Sussex.

By 10 February there will be six Wheeler’s of St James’s pubs and the plan is to open more up and down the country. Two other Wheeler’s of St James’s outlets, in London and Surrey, are restaurants, rather than pubs.

A deal has been agreed on a hotel in Woodstock, Oxfordshire, which will become a Wheeler’s. Meanwhile in East Anglia, the Angel at Lavenham, Suffolk, is already a Wheelers, while the Lifeboat Inn, Thornham, Norfolk, is due to become one soon.

Wheeler’s of St James’s pubs