Phil Thorley: Running a seaside pub empire

Thorley Taverns operations director Philip Thorley has forthright views on the tie, licensing legislation and just what it takes to run a diverse pub estate on the Kent coast. Phil Mellows reports.

"You're going to think you're in Monaco in a minute," says Philip Thorley as he swings the car down into Ramsgate, and sure enough the harbour is sparkling in the early spring sunshine, the yachts swaying and clinking in the breeze and folk lounging outside the pubs and cafés.

This is Thorley country. Thorley Taverns dominates the trade around here, with 25 pubs in the three sibling seaside towns of Margate, Broadstairs and Ramsgate. All are within 10 minutes' drive of the family firm's office, in the old police station in Broadstairs, and as operations director Philip Thorley spends much of his time calling from pub to pub.

It's not micro management. Thorley Taverns managers enjoy a high degree of autonomy. It's why they tend to stay with the company. But neither is it quite a social call. Like all good operators, Thorley seems constantly on the alert, attending to the detail, eyes everywhere, picking up an empty fag packet that's strayed into a porch, rearranging the chairs on the patio, opening a cupboard and being dismayed at a tangle of wire coat hangers on the floor.

The ceaseless struggle to maintain the high standards pubs need to achieve to survive these days is

comparable to spinning plates, only a little less frantic. "Yeah," says Thorley. "I'm like that bloke on the Generation Game."

And in more than one sense. Philip followed his father Frank, still finance director, into the business in 1983. "I was in London, and I didn't want to be a carrot cruncher. I only came down here for a year — and I never went back!

"When I started running the fun pub we had, I realised how much I loved doing it, and when we grew to 12 pubs I became area manager, and that was that."

It's a diverse little estate with every kind of pub you can imagine. Beyond the three towns there are two pubs further down the coast, and another in London. The tight geography enables the small HQ team to carefully position different offers at each site.

Thorley plays down the family aspect, but his own son, George, is now working there, and it's part of the company ethos to keep everything close.

"We do everything in-house, including all the building work. Apart from the auditing we don't outsource anything. It gives us 100% control, and all the information we need to run the business."

Over time, Thorley Taverns has moved out of leaseholds and into freeholds. Where it used to have

16 pubs with Enterprise (via Unique or Whitbread Pub Partnerships), now it's only got five. It's been a deliberate strategy.

"We're getting out of leases because the business model is out of kilter. Too much goes to the pubco and not enough to the operator.

"We have a working relationship with Enterprise, but we can't really extract the profit from the businesses we've got left with them."

It's a grievance Thorley has taken, in his naturally outspoken way, onto the national stage, as a long-serving council member for the Association of Licensed Multiple Retailers (ALMR).

Challenging the tie​

The organisation was criticised for joining the breakaway Independent Pub Confederation at the end of last year, throwing in its lot with the Campaign for Real Ale (CAMRA), the Society of Independent Brewers (SIBA) and the tenants' anti-tie pressure group, Fair Pint.

It took a more militant line over dealings with the Business Innovation & Skills Committee (BISC) inquiry into the tied house system, but Thorley believes the ALMR's position in the affair has been "badly reported and misrepresented", as a result of which it's "taken all the flak".

"We have challenged the way the tie works, but it's not true that we're unhappy with the tie itself," he explains.

"It's a good business model. All we are looking for is to restore the balance between landlord and tenant.

"We couldn't have done that while we stood alongside the British Beer & Pub Association. It represents Punch and Enterprise, and they are, on this question, on the other side of the fence. We would have been seen by our members as lying with the dogs.

"It's an emotional issue. You can't put forward a complex position without being boxed into a corner and called 'anti-tie'. We want the tie to be fair for both sides, and right now it's not. Because of that the business model's cracking, and it's not far off being six feet under."

As much as anybody, Thorley blames the Government for not taking a firm line. "The decision to give the big pubcos another year to sort themselves out was a good old-

fashioned fudge — although it was only what I expected.

"The Government is pathetic. It's like the Licensing Act. They didn't consult us about that. They just told us what they were going to do. You can't get away with that in business. With all our staff and our managers we listen first, and then we take them with us."

Passion​

That's another advantage to plate-spinning, of course. Thorley gets the chance to build up a relationship with the people who are so important to the success of the group, and somehow infect them with his passion.

Even the customers, even the people in the street, seem caught up in it as he nods hello to them.

"I know everyone," he says. "The good, the bad and the ugly — they're the people you've got to know."

They're also the people Thorley is determined to get back into pubs, and there's only one way he knows of doing that.

"It's all up to us. You've to make sure everything you've got is the best it can be and make the quality shine through. It's still only the bad pubs that are closing — and, to be honest, some of them needed to go.

"We have to constantly look at what we're offering, to keep

everything busy and make sure we're always giving our managers something they can talk to customers about.

"We've got to keep them positive — and that means giving them reasons to be positive."

Not every corner of the estate is performing well, Thorley admits. Like siblings, the three towns have their distinctive characters. Ramsgate is the classy one, Broadstairs the quaint one, and Margate… well, it ought to be the brash one, but Margate is having it tough.

"There's not a lot of good employment," says Thorley. "Apparently there are more empty shops in Margate than anywhere else. But the business has to come back here, it's a beautiful place."

Future prospects​

We drive past Frank's Nightclub. "That was our cash cow. It made the money that enabled us to expand. But we've sold it now."

If there is a hint of sadness there, it's quickly surpassed by Thorley's thrill at future prospects.

At the other end of the seafront they're building an art gallery. The Turner Centre is, says Thorley, "the hope for Margate".

And when it opens next year, he'll be ready. Thorley Taverns has bought a derelict pub right opposite. It's being developed into a gastropub called the Hoy and, above it, seven luxury apartments.

And Thorley is especially excited about 3D telly, spending £50,000 on screens at a dozen of his pubs. "I think it will be brilliant," he says. "It will give us a point of difference." In case everyone hasn't already noticed.

My kind of pub​

"I'm 100 different people, so I like 100 different pubs. But, generally, it's got to offer good service, be friendly, sell an excellent product, and have a fantastic atmosphere.

"My local is the Lanthorne in Broadstairs. It's a busy local that attracts all sorts from 18-year-olds to 80-year-olds, and you can also strike up a conversation with any of them.

"I can also watch the rugby there. It's one of my passions."