Kopparberg Q&A: Ciderman and his amazing blends
Magners is facing tough competition from rival ciders, a lot of them accused of being copycats that hopped on a bandwagon, or cheap variants of apple cider. How do you assess this situation?
"We're not competing with Magners on a direct basis because Swedish cider is much sweeter. People have a pre-determined idea of what cider tastes like, and that is apple cider and that is dry.
"Yes, we have an apple cider, but the key one for us is pear, and all of our ciders by heritage are sweet.
"We're different from Magners - we're not stealing their drinkers. I'd even go so far as to say we want them to succeed. It's important that small companies, relative to [Bulmers portfolio owner] Scottish & Newcastle (S&N), do succeed. If all goes S&N's way through the power of being the distributor, producer and wholesaler, it sends bad signals in terms of how wide the market can be."
So it is in the interests of the category for its diversity to be wider?
"It is a question for cider now of attracting a new consumer that comes from wine, packaged lagers and alcopops. They may have heard the noise around cider and settle on one of the big two or they may find Magners and Bulmers a bit dry.
"They will switch between Bulmers and Magners, depending on price and what the bar is selling, but they won't switch from them to Kopparberg to the same degree."
There is a lot of concern that cider could go the way RTDs (ready-to-drink brands) have done over the past five years, with the category damaged by a proliferation of brands that weren't invested in. What can be done to stop that happening?
"There are companies that will operate by bringing in 20 ciders, making money for three years and going, but we are in it for the long haul."We should be focusing as a cider industry on the quality and diversity out there, widening the category. I love what Thatchers and Westons are doing. They are playing the English cider heritage angle very well. And Aspall's fruit versions are great products, beautifully presented.
"If it's like that, building a category, then bring it on."
Look at beers: you can have 12 brands on one bar. Yet there's this notion you can only have one pear cider and one apple cider. Why couldn't you have three of each?
"Look at Strongbow. While all the talk has been about the success of packaged cider, Strongbow has been quietly winning and winning through its draught offering. It shows that cider can survive very well in packaged and draught variety, the two sitting side by side very comfortably.
"Having said that, Magners is falling into a problem because people think 'you're on draught now? What do I do with my ice?' They certainly have a project on their hands in terms of educating their customer. Strongbow doesn't have that issue because everyone knows Strongbow is draught.
"Will Kopparberg launch on draught? At the moment, we're focused on getting our packaged right. But we would never rule it out."
Does cider get a fair deal on duty?
"With the government saying it is going to put alcohol duty up by two per cent above inflation for the next four years, I think we are paying more than enough duty.
"There is an argument that it will stop booze culture, but it isn't the brands that are causing this. It's the fact that there is a lot of underage selling, of ridiculously low pricing out there, and that - at a deeper level - kids don't have enough to do to mean they're not tempted to drink cheap cider on the street corner.
"It's not about lashing on taxation, it's about looking at the sources of the problem. If the government do keep putting up tax, it's going to kill off a large swathe of the country's bar culture."
