Hosts demand rate cut for public use of toilets

Reduce business rates and we will allow the general public to use our toilets - that's the solution being offered to the great toilet debate by a number of licensees.

The stormy argument has been raging ever since British Toilet Association director Richard Chisnell said pubs have a "moral obligation" to let their loos be used because they earn so much money "filling bladders". The number of public toilets has halved in 10 years due to high maintenance costs.

Earlier this year, Fenland District Council in Cam-bridgeshire said it was to close half of its toilets, suggesting the public use alternatives such as those in pubs. The idea left Trisha Smith of the Acre, March, Cambridgeshire, irate.

"The council tell us we are not allowed to admit under-age people but that's what we'd get," she said. "I don't want people traipsing in here upsetting my customers just to use the toilet. They have no respect. If I catch people sneaking in, I turf them out."

Kennet & District Licensed Victuallers Association secretary Rosemary Earle feels that once more councils are offloading responsibility on to licensees. "Why are we being targeted? Licensees are already heavily taxed. We have to ensure our premises are fit and proper places. If they are not, we can lose our personal and premises licences. Licensees have to fight for every penny to go into their tills."

David Heyes, licensee at the Garsdale Country Inn in Brandlesholme in Lancashire added: "If children arrive you have to supervise them, or before you know it they block toilets with rolls of paper."

Long-standing licensee and BII central regional chairman Bernard Brindley believes pubs must be able to choose policies rather than have them dictated.

"There is also an issue with drugs and illegal activities," he said. "You can't have CCTV in toilets so supervision is a problem. And what about insurance? All it takes is for someone to slip and you're hit with a big compensation claim."

Cost is an essential issue. "Toilets are expensive," said Dennis Griffiths of the Miners Rest, Barnsley, Yorkshire.

"Costs - including water rates, soap, towels and hand driers - can amount to around £80 a week, and that's just for your customers."

One solution for councils who want pubs to provide public toilets is to cut business rates. "A business rates allowance could work," said Heyes.

Brindley added: "It is a good idea and one I would fully support."

Graham Rowson's Plun-gington Tavern in Preston, Lancashire, is next to a bus stop, so people frequently request to use the pub toilet.

"I charge them 5p in the charity box," he said. "We are part of the community, after all. The answer would be to reduce business rates - that would be a real incentive."

The BII is canvassing the views of its members on the subject. To express your opinion visit www.bii.org.

council pays £600 subsidy

Richmond Borough Council offers businesses a £600 subsidy if they join its scheme to help address the lack of public toilets.

Pubs, restaurants and cafés that sign up to its programme display a window sticker stating members of the public can use the loos. In return, they receive the annual subsidy.

"It works really well and we have had no problems at all," said Darren Brown, licensee at the Richmond Arms. "It has not really made a difference. I think it is a good idea."

loos 'must be better policed'

Marsh Insurance business development manager Ken Watson warned that pubs would have to be better policed if they were to open up to the general public.

"I don't think insurance costs would shoot up," he said. "But licensees would have to be very diligent.

"They would need to display signs asking people to report anything to staff if they were unhappy with the toilets, use yellow cones when cleaning toilets to warn about wet floors and display a list detailing when the toilets were last inspected. I'd guess that would need another dedicated member of staff."

Licensee and BII central regional chairman Bernard Brindley added: "If you don't want the public coming in to use your toilets, the best way to avoid arguments is to put up a polite notice saying the pub toilets are not available for public use."

public service 'Good for trade'

Steve Haslam, licensee at the Cutter Inn, Ely, Cambridgeshire, also runs a pub cleaning firm. He believes allowing the public access to pub toilets would ultimately be good for trade.

"The first rule in business is getting people through the door and it is irrelevant how you do that.

"I think I have the best toilets in Ely so I would welcome people coming in. It would be of direct benefit to us because they are seeing the pub and witnessing our good standards so they may well come back to eat or drink. Licensees shouldn't be frightened, unless they have poor-quality facilities."