Profile: John Grogan

John Grogan, chairman of the All-Party Parliamentary Beer Group, talks to James Wilmore about those headlines, smoking and 24-hour drinking.

Usually the summer is a time for MPs to relax and enjoy a drink away from the hurly burly of politics. But for John Grogan, MP for Selby and chairman of the All-Party Parliamentary Beer Group, this year his holidays have been rudely interrupted by - yes, you've guessed it - a tabloid exposé.

An article in the August 14 edition of the Mail on Sunday implied that he and key Labour figures who helped draw up the new Licensing Act are in the pockets of major drinks companies. It also detailed the donations that the "Beer Club" has received since 1997, which total £200,000. The piece was yet another attempt by the Mail group to fire a shot at what it sees as the government's ill-conceived changes to the licensing laws.

But as a wily politician John is unfazed by attempts like this to undermine him. "If that's the worst thing that ever happens to me in politics it won't be so bad," he says. "Every week they are looking for those types of stories and it does become slightly ridiculous, but that's the robust nature of politics and I'm not particularly complaining about it."

The only thing he found factually wrong with the story was that at the time he wrote articles for Enterprise Inns, he wasn't actually on the government's licensing committee. And as for the £200,000? John explained that the money could clearly be accounted for in salaries to officers of the club - and that he himself received no salary from the club whatsoever.

Tabloid tricks​

Looking into his crystal ball, John is mindful of the tricks the tabloids may get up to once the legislation comes in. "The danger is when the law changes every tabloid snapper will be out trying to get a picture of a fight in a pub," he says.

The point is, though, he adds, there are already fights and the purpose of the changes is to alleviate the situation.

The Halifax-born MP is a strong believer that allowing pubs more flexible hours will ease the problems of alcohol-related violence. "It won't be Nirvana," explains John.

"It won't be paradise at Christmas and there'll be plenty of people still having fights, but I think it will stop people drinking madly against the clock and hopefully overall it will make England a more civilised place."

Smoking plans​

Plenty of people within the industry are against a smoking ban as well. But this may be academic come 2008, when John believes a full ban is now looking increasingly likely. Despite the government's current proposal to exempt pubs that don't serve food and private members' clubs, John is convinced a full ban will happen. "I think the question is in the timing though," he says. And he is not convinced the current proposals are workable. "I've always thought the distortions between food and non-food are ridiculous. I also think the department didn't realise how many pubs are non-food, especially in the north. If it's a health issue how can you possibly justify that?"

As was clear in The Publican Forum on smoking in July, licensees have now accepted that some form of ban is inevitable - all they want now is a decision from the government. "The government has got to be able to give pubs certainty or licensees will have to make a decision on business models for a very short time if a complete ban is introduced," John explains.

At the Forum the idea of a "third way" was mooted by licensees. This would involve offering exemptions to those pubs that would be hardest hit, based on factors including turnover and floorspace. It was also argued that pubs should be allowed separate smoking rooms if space was available.

However, the MP is not convinced by the logic of this approach. "The industry could argue for some kind of rate relief," he says. "But if pubs are given, say, five years to adjust I think that's fair."

And overall it seems John thinks this would be fair in the public's eyes, as he now believes the majority of people are in favour of a ban. He adds: "I think it's a good idea and to be honest it's a social change that everyone will just have to accept."

Alcohol-related violence​

On the issue of alcohol-related violence, John admits that it has always gone on. But he feels this problem has escalated over the past 20 years because the police and the judiciary have not enforced the law firmly enough. "It's been acceptable to have people wandering around town centres drunk," he says. "But there are plenty of powers for the police and the judiciary to deal with these problems."

The rise in the amount that young women are drinking is also a concern for the MP. "But the worry is, if they are drinking as much as men there are physiological differences and this can have serious long-term effects," he says.

Of course, John is sympathetic considering the bad press that pubs have gotten recently over the issue of binge-drinking and so-called "24-hour drinking".

"There's a lot of violence that isn't alcohol related," he explains. "When the government did have a crackdown it came out that only 20 per cent of admissions were alcohol related, whereas 50 per cent is often the figure quoted. Pubs quite rightly should feel aggrieved that it's always them in the firing line and they often appear in tabloids rather than supermarkets."

But despite the rough treatment pubs have had of late, John agrees with the views of licensees in this year's Publican Market Report​ - namely that standards are improving.

"Both in terms of quality and in terms of social responsibility, standards have increased quite a bit over the past four or five years," he says. "Overall, I think it's fair to say the hospitality industry is still definitely one of Britain's success stories."

John Grogan MP​

• John first stood for the seat of Selby at the 1987 General Election when aged just 25, and again in the 1992 General Election. He was eventually successful in 1997.
• He is also chairman of the All-Party Parliamentary BBC Group
• John likes to keep fit by playing five-a-side football, although he keeps the running about to a minimum by playing in goal.

Grogan on...​

• Licensing laws:​ "There's a quiet revolution going on, in that a lot of pubs are getting extended hours without any objections, which is to be celebrated really."
• Smoking:​ "I think everyone knows in their hearts that a full ban is going to come in, it's just a question of when."