CAMRA
"We don’t believe every pub should remain open." - Interviewing CAMRA's Tim Page
Tim Page is a man on a mission. When I meet him at the Crown in St Albans, Hertfordshire, a short walk from CAMRA’s headquarters, he is buzzing with ideas – firing off vignettes about the current state of the organisation and the beer industry. It’s immediately obvious that he is thoroughly engaged and passionate about running the UK’s largest single-issue consumer group.
And who wouldn’t be? This is an extraordinary time to be chief executive of CAMRA – probably the most challenging in its history. In March this year, it launched the Revitalisation project, a year-long consultation of its membership to decide on its future, and headed by founding member, Michael Hardman.
It was an incredibly brave move – as illustrated in an interview that Hardman undertook on BBC TV, where the subject of ‘craft beer’ was raised by the interviewer. Hardman claimed that craft beer ‘didn’t exist’ – a line immediately criticised on social media.
Page
“Those two things – quality and choice – are emerging as two things around which CAMRA members can agree."
The divisions between the terms real ale and craft beer are well documented – as is the obsession among some beer geeks about methods of dispense. Does it matter whether it is keg or cask? Isn’t that the whole purpose of CAMRA, to protect against carbonation and ‘gassy’ beer? The battles have raged across online discussion forums and in CAMRA groups across the country.
Things have gone rather better in the months following. An online poll of views and face-to-face consultations have begun, resulting in detailed interaction across the whole 177,000 membership base. But, as Page states, this is just the start – and he anticipates a further three or four surveys will be conducted in coming months.
Page says: “The first thing I would like to say is that I have great confidence in the process that has been established, and the body that has been set up by CAMRA’s leadership – the national executive – to oversee this strategic review.
“To have one of CAMRA’s four founders chairing a body that’s so well qualified, and are very knowledgeable about CAMRA, is great – but also an awareness of the wider environment within which we are operating nowadays.”
He admits though that the Revitalisation project has opened up the debate significantly – and this was arguably the purpose of the consultation.
“You are right to say there is a wide disparity of opinions that is being exposed across the consultation meetings – of which there have been more than 20 now – and also the individual surveys sent out. I always suspected from my discussions with active participants that the ages reflect quite different opinions.”
Rich history
This divide is exactly as beer aficionados would expect – the older, cask ale drinker and the younger beer drinker, unaware of the rich history of CAMRA and its deep, long fight against the horrific keg beers of the 1970s.
Page continues: “Those who have been involved in CAMRA since quite early days have quite rightly placed great emphasis on cask beer, and beer subject to secondary fermentation and other types of beer. I completely understand that.
“But against that, there are people who have come in who don’t recognise the term ‘real ale’. They are CAMRA members but their membership is around their enthusiasm for drinking good beer.”
"Clearly there is a much wider quality of beers now – because CAMRA has been successful."
This would suggest a clash of beer cultures. Yet Page sees a shared vision, as you would expect of a chief executive wanting to steer the CAMRA colossus forward
He says: “What I’ve learnt from the original members is that there were two founding principles to CAMRA. The first was concerned about the quality of beer, and the diminishing quality of it in the early 1970s. Clearly there is a much wider quality now – because CAMRA has been successful.
“The second thing is CAMRA was concerned about choice – the concern of drinkers again, with some 11,000 beers now routinely available to drinkers, and
1,700 breweries.
“Those two things – quality and choice – are emerging as two things around which CAMRA members can agree.
“And the third theme, if I can put it that way, is the preservation of pubs as the only place where you can drink craft beer or real ale. This is absolutely fundamental to the campaign and has been our priority.”
Blanket ACV approach
This leads on to the other big play for CAMRA – assets of community value (ACVs). Has it been a success? As shown with the blanket ACV approach used by campaigners in Otley, West Yorkshire – where every pub had an ACV listing placed on it – the system potentially requires some revision because the actions made there effectively put a ruling on other people’s businesses.
“I have to say that our objective remains for permitted development rights to be removed from pubs, to have them placed in a sui generis category, that will require on every occasion an owner who wants to change the use of a pub to go through a planning application process,” says Page.
“The example you have cited (Otley) has shown that the ACV device is imperfect – but it is the best thing we have at the moment. And it is why we are asking people to apply for it as, if you really value a pub, you should have it listed.
“But, as I’ve said previously, it would be much better if all pubs are listed, therefore the use of an ACV listing would be solely for when there is a genuine fear among the local community that the pub could be lost and it would enable them to bid for it.”
But Page is realistic about the situation for the pub industry in the UK.
“The bottom line for us is that we don’t believe every pub should remain open. There’s a diminishing requirement for pubs and, in some areas, there are too many pubs.
“We would far rather see pub owners investing in pubs that are clearly really valued even if that requires the closure of others for which local people have
no purpose.”
There is one element of the Revitalisation project that is fresh for CAMRA – and sees them starting to move in an entirely new direction: education.
“The keeping of beer in pubs is not universally great and perhaps we can play a role in that,” Page states.
“The other aspect of education is that people come and join CAMRA and their knowledge of beer is pretty thin. As an organisation, we take them on a journey of discovery to the point where they realise that really well-made cask ale is probably the best form of beer that you can drink.”
A re-energised organisation
This leads us naturally into the post-Revitalisation world. What will CAMRA look like in five years? Will it even be called CAMRA?
Page nods enthusiastically at the excitement of a re-energised organisation. “For the future, I hope we attract a wider group of people and those who have not discovered real ale yet, and give us the opportunity to teach them about different beer styles and develop their ability to be able to discriminate between the good and bad.”
He is also keen to talk about working with other association bodies – and points to some of the campaigns that have already been successful.
“We are already effective in the industry as a pressure group, we have a relationship with the brewers and the pub companies, and this has been jeopardised at times as we have had to do some necessary campaigning that has upset our partners in the sector.
“But there are many occasions where we have all been able to campaign together for the benefit of the sector, such as on the price of beer, and I hope we will be able to find more common ground.”
He closes on a fighting message – and a perfect example of why CAMRA has been such a successful long-term pressure group for the beer and pub industry.
“Yet we also need to be able to fight on those things which may upset those in the industry but are important to our membership and those that run pubs - and strike against those things which we believe are not to the benefit of the British beer drinker.”
