The Big Interview: John Hayes, BEDA chairman

“I refuse to go past 39,” he says. “Most people have the ability to work it out, and realise that I’m 65 and really shouldn’t be in a nightclub, so they can’t quite fathom it.”

Hayes started his career in the night-time sector as a DJ going to parties and weddings in the towns of Lincolnshire and Yorkshire with a set of turntables, “in the days when you had to put half a penny on top of your needle because the dancefloor would tremble”. Hayes does know his stuff.

He has a particular axe to grind with the DJs of today who think he’s just “an old boy asking us to turn the sound down again”.

“They are among the highest paid people in the industry and either make or destroy a business,” he says. “Whether they read the crowd properly or whether they play the music too loud.

“I can go into Tokyo in Newcastle, stand next to their speakers and my hair moves, but because it’s perfect sound — it might be 120dBs in each ear hole — I enjoy it. What I don’t like is going into clubs and a DJ is driving the speakers as hard as he can and there’s distortion in the sound.”

But Hayes believes that this is why nightclub owners need to include DJs in day-to-day decisions. “I think our industry sometimes kicks itself up the backside,” Hayes explains.

“We don’t spend enough time talking to DJs. We have management meetings that will never involve the DJ, but I think we’re realising this as we move forward into this extremely competitive era.”

Hayes moved on to become a nightclub owner in 1976 when he opened his first venture, Fagans in Scunthorpe. He then opened Garbo’s in 1981 in the same town, which is now known as Bamboogy and is still trading 30 years later.

And from then Hayes continued his venture into nightclubs because “he got the bug” for it. He now owns five Bamboogys — the original
in Scunthorpe and venues in Bolton, Halifax, Oldham and Wigan — as well as being chairman of the Bar Entertainment & Dance Association (BEDA).
The Westminster syndrome​

But while he has been a part of the good times and has been very successful, he admits the industry hasn’t seen the best of times lately.

The problem with nightclubs today, according to Hayes, is “a lack of atmosphere”. “That is the biggest thing,” he explains. “People will go where it’s busy.

“The marketplace went from opening every night in the week to just three nights. Saturday nights have become the be all and end all in most towns, unless it is a student town.”

He adds that village pubs being allowed to stay open later hasn’t helped the situation either.

“Why would you leave that safe, local friendly environment to get in a cab and go to a town centre?” asks Hayes. “It’s too late. You’ve already decided you’re going home.”

And he blames the late opening hours of pubs, along with the relaxation of licensing laws, for setting in train the demise of the nightclub sector.

His argument was always that extra licensing hours for pubs and bars will discourage people from going to a nightclub.

“When you used to go to court for a licence, you had to prove a need for another pub. The Licensing Act 2003 took need out of the argument, which over-saturated the market and ruined the atmosphere in nightclubs,” he says.

He has a particular issue with MPs because of this and believes that currently they don’t really understand how the late-night sector is performing outside London.

Hayes thinks that MPs are often “swayed” because they work in London where the economy is thriving.

“Their (politicians) vision is of London and how busy it is. The outside world is not like that. They lose their sense of reality, and some of it’s from working in Westminster.”

He seems to have lost faith with all political parties, probably mirroring the views of others in the late-night sector. “I think they meddle with stuff that they shouldn’t meddle with,” he says.

“Education, health and social welfare, policing and everything else is what they should concentrate on. But they like to dabble, particularly with our industry.

“Labour and Conservative have messed around with Beer Orders, and, of course, 24-hour licensing.”

Other battles​

Legislation is not the only thing the industry is fighting against. Just mention the music royalties collection agency PPL to anybody in the trade. PPL is currently in consultation with trade bodies over increasing its Specially Featured Entertainment fees by up to 4,000%.

Hayes is very concerned about the beginnings of an underground industry filled with people not paying for a music licence.

“[If the fees do come into force] the good operators are most likely to close,” says Hayes.

“The cowboys will have succeeded again. They’ll do it without a licence.”

Hayes also believes that enforcement is a key issue here.

“The frustrating part of it is that while we have premises licences that the authorities check regularly, they don’t take PPL and PRS for
Music licences as being part of that,” says Hayes.

“To me it’s just a simple way of making sure everybody who should be registered is paying a fee.”

He adds: “If they’d (PPL) said we want a 50% increase, we’d still have gone, ‘Oh, bloody hell’.

“But to say in the region of 1,000% to 4,000%, where’s the logic and argument in that?

“As an industry, any increase is critical, mainly because we’re not working at full GP like we used to.”

A unified voice​

The recent merger of BEDA and the Association of Licensed Multiple Retailers (ALMR) will bring a unified voice to the trade to fight such battles, Hayes explains.

He now heads the late-night sector on the ALMR council, as part of BEDA.

“Getting together with the ALMR really was a sensible move,” he says. “It’s one voice representing lots of retailers operating single units or multiple units, but who sing from one hymn sheet now.

“We’ve talked to the ALMR for a number of years. It became clear that sometime or another a merger would be a sensible thing. The Government prefers one voice.”

It’s this attitude that shows why Hayes is stronger than ever when it comes to fighting against more doom and gloom for pubs and nightclubs.

“We’re being hit from lots of directions, but I still love the industry,” he points out.

“Whatever happens, people will still want to, at some point, go out and enjoy themselves. The trade has to ensure we are even better at what we do than we have been.

“You used to be able to open your doors and virtually sit back, and now you don’t know [how trade will be] from one weekend to another.”

Hayes leaves me to hop on a London bus — something that he enjoys doing with his free bus pass when in town.

“London is my favourite city. And I’ve got a free bus pass — saving myself £70 or £80 in cabs. I don’t admit [to having a free bus pass] at home, but in London no-one knows me, so it’s OK.”

Hopefully he’ll get into that nightclub tonight.