Q: As you have made it clear that you do not support an independent panel, how are you planning to monitor the self-regulation agreement?
I am new to the post and want to understand the issues, and I am keen to hear from those in the industry that continue to have concerns. I don’t want to have a closed mind as a new minister. Coming into the job, it strikes me that it is worth seeing if this [agreement] will work.
Legislation takes a long time to get to fruition and by the time you get a slot on the legislative timetable there are a hell of a lot of different Bills competing with each other. So when you are faced with a judgement do you go for a legally-binding statutory code, which we might have to wait two years to secure, or alternatively a legally-binding code implemented throughout the contract?
Q: There is some dispute as to whether the codes of practice are legally binding.
My background is as a lawyer. If complaints come from some people, that they are finding there is some loophole or problem, I want to hear from them. On the face of it, the industry framework code appears to me to be legally binding, once the parties agree to it.
Two parties to a contract — that is legally binding — and then to back that up you have the Pubs Independent Conciliation & Arbitration Service (PICA-Service), which gives you the forum to pursue complaints.
Q: There is some industry concern about how balanced the PICA-Service panel will be.
I want it to be balanced. I know at the moment that the service is still looking for a vice-chairman. It won’t work if the rulings from the service are seen to be biased.
The whole intention, from my perspective, is to have a balanced panel that considers matters objectively and reaches rational and objective decisions.
Q: How are you going to monitor this?
Let’s see how it works. We will know about the cases that go before it. I think everyone in the industry will be monitoring it. Those who have an interest in this will all be watching very closely. I want to know how it works.
I want to see that it is working objectively and that it will be delivering what it should, and that it builds the confidence of the parties. It has to meet that challenge and has to be a system that engenders confidence.
Q: How are you going to do this? Are you going to monitor every case?
I just think the reality is that, as cases come before it, we will be hearing views expressed about how the system is working and I want to see myself how this is working. I know there have been unacceptable practices from some pub companies and I don’t want to see unacceptable practices.
I am intolerant of any landlord or owner in a business relationship behaving oppressively towards a partner in that business — whether it is in the pub industry or anywhere else. We want a well-functioning industry and a successful industry where parties behave responsibly and lawfully.
Q: Is there any timeframe on how long the self-regulation agreement will be allowed to run before you monitor its success?
At this stage in my job I haven’t set a particular period of time. I want to see how this operates and how the concerns that have been expressed in the past about the behaviour of pubcos are addressed. Then we can make a rational assessment of how the system is working.
Q: If the system is proved not to work, will you consider statutory regulation?
I will listen to people. At this point I am new to the job and PICA-Service was activated only last week. I am not going to pre-empt
the new system. The Office of Fair Trading looked at the industry and did not conclude there were competition issues at stake.
People ultimately should be free to enter agreements with others, but we want an effective functioning industry where people are treated properly. We think this is a fast way, much faster than it would have been with legislation, of achieving a framework for good conduct in this industry.
Q: Are you planning any meetings with interested parties?
I have an open mind. I want to learn about the challenges of the industry and I am keen to hear from people. I know what has happened in the past but what I am interested in is the present. I want evidence of the system working effectively. Are there continuing concerns?
Q: Will you consider this independent panel at a later date?
At this stage, I want to see how it works and then make assessments in due course.