You can take the man out of the pub, but you can't take the pub out of the man, as Phil Mellows found out when he interviewed Simon Kirby, the new MP for Brighton Kemptown.
A month into the job, Simon Kirby is finding out what it means to be an MP. "I've already had 2,000 letters and 4,000 emails," he says, his eyes glazing over slightly. "And yes, some of them have been from licensees. If it's a local concern, I take it seriously. As an MP you're only in a position to pass on concerns to the Government. But I'll certainly do my best."
It's been 10 years since I last sat down to talk to Kirby. If he seems slightly less sure of himself now, as the newly elected Conservative member for Brighton Kemptown, it would be understandable.
Back then he was joint boss, with TV business troubleshooter Martin Webb, of C-Side, a fast-growing, creative, Brighton-based pubco. A year later they sold their 28 pubs and bars for £14m.
Webb went on to host the show Risking It All, and is now back rebuilding a pub empire in the city by the sea. Kirby went to New Zealand to pursue property interests before returning home to Sussex in 2005 where he picked up his political career.
"I first became a councillor at 27, at about the same time I started running my own pubs. So the politics didn't happen overnight. It's been a natural progression. I've stood eight times for the local council.
"I'm doing it because I think I can make a difference. I wanted to be an MP for somewhere I know well, and I've been lucky enough to get that."
Tied to pub trade
His ties to the pub trade remain strong, though. "Pubs have been a continuous strand throughout my life, along with my family and politics. I've been tempted to go back into the industry — with the right site and the right company. It's a dynamic, interesting industry, and it's important to me. In my time I've employed thousands of people in more than 40 licensed premises. You don't have that background without retaining a strong interest."
In fact, one of the first things Kirby did on reaching Westminster was to join the All-Party Parliamentary Save the Pub Group. While you can't quite see him leaping to the barricades on the tied house question, like the group's chairman, Greg Mulholland, he does have the insight and the sympathy that comes from having run leased pubs himself.
He says he will be adding his "small voice" to encourage the Government to stick to the June 2011 deadline for pubcos to comply with the demands of the Luff inquiry.
"It's unfortunate that trading conditions are difficult and a lot of tied pubs are struggling to make ends meet. The tie is often the difference between making a profit and making a loss. I always preferred free-of-tie sites. There was a big financial advantage in being free of tie.
"No one would support getting rid of the tie, but trading conditions have changed. Plus, we've had the smoking ban and increasing competition from off-sales. The pubcos have probably taken too much out of the industry and it's meant pub tenants have become less profitable.
"There's a balance to be struck, and I'd be nearer the side of the tenant in these difficult times. The flexible approach that the pubcos now seem to be taking makes sense."
Kirby is struck by how much the trade has changed in the past decade. "It's still a fantastic industry, but it's more difficult to succeed in now. Running a pub has become more professional.
"The 2003 Licensing Act has made it much easier to obtain a licensed premises and that's brought proliferation, and more competition for pubs."
Concerned
As someone who has operated both mainstream pubs and late-night venues, Kirby is worried about the impact of longer pub licensing hours, which he feels "may have gone too far in some cases" causing the nightclub sector to struggle to compete with late-opening pubs. Not a good thing in his view.
"I started working in Yates's in Nottingham when I was 19 and we closed at 10.30pm — that seems a very long time ago. The new licensing laws have made it more flexible, and that's a good thing. I wouldn't want to go back. But 24-hour licensing is something that needs looking at.
"If pubs had been asked to accept, say, 1am closing Friday and Saturday it would have been seen as a reasonable step forward. But instead the floodgates were opened and I believe that it's lowered operating standards.
"Clubs were geared up to be late-night operations with public entertainment licences, CCTVs and so on. They were fit for purpose. Pubs don't necessarily have the best set-up to control the late-night trade.
"So the legislation hasn't achieved all it might have done. Elements have worked well and I don't want to turn the clock back. But it's a good time to look at what we can improve on. We need to look at how licensing fits in with society as a whole."
While he doesn't commit himself on minimum pricing, Kirby is clearly on the side of the pub when it comes to bargain supermarket booze.
"The pub industry has been give a bad name on account of off-sales," he says. "It's an irony that cheap alcohol means less supervision — the supermarket has no responsibility for how people consume what it sells. If we accept that alcohol is a drug that affects different people in different ways the on-trade is the preferable place for it to be drunk — that's where you can have supervision over its consumption."
Alcohol duty
On alcohol duty, he doesn't sound too optimistic. "I'm happy to put the British Beer & Pub Association's case on reducing beer taxation. In fact I've already spoken to the Chancellor about it. The problem we have, though, is that there's no money left to pay for it. The financial situation is worse than we expected and there are going to be difficult times ahead.
"As someone who's come from the industry I'll support pubs in this. There's a case to be made and we may see success, but politicians will do what they have to do.
"We can't underestimate the issue of alcohol misuse. I enjoy a drink, but we need to encourage responsible drinking. And we also have to support businesses having a tough time. It's a balance."
Although what he says is constrained by his Government's
official policies, as he warms to the subject, the licensee in Kirby comes to the fore.
"Personally, I think we should do whatever we can to encourage well-run pubs to stay open and be profitable. Perhaps it might be possible to reduce taxation on on-sales. I don't know. I'm open to suggestions. But there are two goals in this — to keep pubs open and to reduce alcohol related problems.
"I'm sure the new government will have its own ideas and that it will listen carefully to lobbying from all trade organisations, on minimum pricing, on taxation.
"As far as MPs are concerned there are pubs in every constituency and many people who support their local. Most MPs will say pubs are a desirable thing.
"Pubs are a fundamental part of our lifestyle. The problem is that they need to change to stay viable. If we're not careful we'll lose something that's special.
"We should do whatever we can to help pubs. Every MP has a role to protect their local community — and the pub is often the last thing a community has got."
My kind of pub
"I'm on record as saying that my favourite pub is the Plough Inn in Rottingdean. I like the kind of pub that anyone can go to. Some pubs are more like restaurants. Others specialise in sport or music. But I like a pub that makes an effort to appeal to everyone.
Key dates
• 1964 — Simon Kirby is born in Sussex
• 1983 — Takes his first job in a pub — Yates's in Nottingham
• 1990 — After working for several pub operators, Kirby sets up his own company with friend Martin Webb. They called the pubco Webb-Kirby, later changing it to C-Side
• 1991 — Elected to East Sussex County Council, representing Kemptown, going on to represent other wards on Brighton Council
• 2001 — Sells C-Side
• 2005 — After a stint in New Zealand, returns to Sussex
• 2006 — Select